Digimon Savers

[GordoBaggins]

Everyone can say that now.

Can say what?

Pretty much everyone asks "Merukimon WTF". You must be blind then.

I don't even mean just "Merukimon." I mean about everything in the dub so far (which, as far as I know, nobody's even SEEN yet, regardless of how much we already know). The people who complain don't even make up 50% of the viewers. You know why? Because - and this is just a logical guess - at least 80% of them are kids. Kids who probably don't know what Marcus's Japanese name is, and quite honestly probably don't care. Then there's a good percent of the older fans who like the dub, and then the rest is probably older viewers who could care less about it, like you. But many of the dub bashers won't even give it a chance, so really, do they even count?

Let's not turn this into an extensive argument.

Thanks.

And I'm aware that I probably just made it worse. xD

 

[MugenSeiRyuu]

Can say what?

You know what !

I don't even mean just "Merukimon." I mean about everything in the dub so far (which, as far as I know, nobody's even SEEN yet, regardless of how much we already know). The people who complain don't even make up 50% of the viewers. You know why? Because - and this is just a logical guess - at least 80% of them are kids. Kids who probably don't know what Marcus's Japanese name is, and quite honestly probably don't care. Then there's a good percent of the older fans who like the dub, and then the rest is probably older viewers who could care less about it, like you. But many of the dub bashers won't even give it a chance, so really, do they even count?

Because we still have to deal with those Fans when they enter forums.

Is it too much to atleast once get a good Dub without unneccesary changes ?
I´m pretty sure that people would consider Digimon less Childish if they had seen it how it is in the Japanese Version, not what the Dub made out of it.

Whd Do you think that People don´t believe that Nimoy can pull off a good Dub ? Because the one in the past sucked. And changing just about every Character´s name for this Series and with no apparent reason, like Nimoy did, for sure doesn´t help. Anime Dubbing might have improved over the years, staying closer to the Original and keeping names, but that doesn´t seem to be the case for Digimon Dubs.

 

[amigobro2]

Doesn't Jeff know that this series is aimed also at a older audience as well, does even Disney know that? Maybe they don't if they didn't read what Sakuya translated a while back.....

SakuyamonX's translation of Yamaguchi Ryota's notes on Digimon Savers!

 

[Hagaren Gao]

I still don't exactly get the problem.

I know the dub isn't going to be 'perfect'. We've got our name changes, from staying close to the original names (Thomas, Yoshi) to...not so close (Keenan?). There is a pretty good chance we will get new bgm and a new Opening theme. And of course, there will be edits or censors.

But does it really matter.

It's hard to word what's in my head, but why can't we just enjoy both? Sure, things are going to change in the dub, maybe for the worse. But considering our awesome voice cast, and less one-liners that we will (supposedly) have, I don't think the dub is going to be as bad as people make it out to be.

You just have to take it as another way of telling the story. Treat the two as separate entities. Enjoy it, dispite any flaws it may have. Well, at least give it a fair chance. Watch a few episodes, watch them with an open mind. Maybe it will turn out you like it! Or you can at least say you tried it.

Besides, you will always know the 'real' way things went.

I'm sure that made no sence, because I can't form my thoughts into the keyboard right now

 

[Gaomon]

Doesn't Jeff know that this series is aimed also at a older audience as well, does even Disney know that? Maybe they don't if they didn't read what Sakuya translated a while back.....

SakuyamonX's translation of Yamaguchi Ryota's notes on Digimon Savers!

I'm sure that they read it, or at least have enough knowledge to know what Savers' original demographic was. The thing is, they don't care. Cardcaptor Sakura, for example, was without a doubt, a very girly shoujou anime. Yet Nelvana attempted (patheically) to dub and market it as a boys' cartoon, trying to ride on the pokemon phenomenon. There was no way that they couldn't have known what they were doing as they cut more than half the episodes out of the series, changed names, lines, events, and themes, and wholly produced possibly the WORST dub of any Japanese animation in the US. They weren't concerned with what the original Japanese producers had in mind for a target audience. What they were interested in was what would make them the most money (or so they thought). That's showbiz, which Mr. Nimoy and Disney are a part of. All about money.

 

[goc]

His notes are based on the ORIGINAL proposal to the series, unless I've misread/misremembered it, the original idea/proposal involved EVERYONE being fighters, which is signifigantly different then how the show ended up, and being done for an older audience without being told the age difference doesn't mean anything, it might mean they used to aim for 8 year olders and this time they were aiming for 12 year olders who saw Digimon back when they were 8 or younger, and there's no guarentee they are trying to do the same thing in the USA with the show.

 

[MugenSeiRyuu]

Not really. They talk about late teens. Pretty much what a certain Cast Member would fall under. You know, the one whose Fanboy I am.

Ofcurse the first draft is way different, but I don´t think they changed the wanted Audience. If you look at the Final Product, it is full of hommages to the older Sereis, V-Tamer and the whole Franchise.

 

[Gaomon]

Not really. They talk about late teens. Pretty much what a certain Cast Member would fall under. You know, the one whose Fanboy I am.

Ofcurse the first draft is way different, but I don´t think they changed the wanted Audience. If you look at the Final Product, it is full of hommages to the older Sereis, V-Tamer and the whole Franchise.

He's right. All the references to the old stuff brought out the old fan in me and made me like the series even more. I watched the first season of digimon many years ago, and it's because of that that the fifth season was able to pull me in again even after I got past my teen years. It was a very clever ploy, playing on our nostalgia but making a few changes so that we older folks don't have to be watching a show about little kids anymore.

 

[SSJ Jup81]

I still don't exactly get the problem.

I know the dub isn't going to be 'perfect'. We've got our name changes, from staying close to the original names (Thomas, Yoshi) to...not so close (Keenan?). There is a pretty good chance we will get new bgm and a new Opening theme. And of course, there will be edits or censors.

And what is wrong with keeping original bgm and other music? There's nothing wrong with exposing something "foreign" or something of another culture. To me, it shows tolerance and respect for whatever country said show is from. If other countries can do that with our stuff, why can't we do so with theirs? If I'm not mistaken, it's not too often that the stuff they import have many changes aside from voices (naturally) for dubbing. The only way I could see a "name change" over there or other countries doing a dub is if they just use an alternate one which means the same thing or is equivalent to the original, sorta like how in Spanish dubs, "Chichi" of Dragon Ball is known as "Milk" due to the pun of the original name.

If other series can keep original music, names, etc., why can't shows like Digimon get the same treatment? To me, it's an insult to America's youth, thinking that they won't understand it or something. It's almost like they don't want them to know that it's something foreign.

It's hard to word what's in my head, but why can't we just enjoy both?

I couldn't enjoy Adventure 02's dub no matter how hard I try. Savers probably won't be too bad, though.

You just have to take it as another way of telling the story. Treat the two as separate entities. Enjoy it, dispite any flaws it may have. Well, at least give it a fair chance. Watch a few episodes, watch them with an open mind. Maybe it will turn out you like it! Or you can at least say you tried it.

This is true. I more than likely won't watch it myself, though, just like I didn't watch Tamers or Frontier's dubs. It wasn't because they were dubs. With Tamers, it was a laziness issue. I refused to get up early to watch much of anything at that time and I got behind with the Japanese version and with me, if I miss a lot of anything, I more than likely won't go back to it. With Frontier, even in Japanese, I didn't like this series after the arc dealing with Duskmon (think that was his name), so no need to watch a dub of it.

 

[GordoBaggins]

What's bothering me is that people are expecting WAY too much from the dub, regardless of who's directing it. After the four seasons we've seen dubbed, who honestly thought Savers would be any different? And with Nimoy, no less?

I don't want people to think that I like the idea of my favorite series becoming Americanized from the ground up. I'd love to see an uncensored dub with all the names kept and the plot completely in tact, and every line accurately translated. But it's what I've become accustomed to, and I've come to expect the worst. And trust me, this isn't the absolute worst things could be. Need I say more than "4Kids?" Maybe "One Piece?" ..."Lollipop?"

It's just that some people seem to think a 99% accurate dub WILL come, and they get their expectations stupidly high, then they're crushed when they here their favorite character's name is getting a few letters switched around. The English dub is for kids to watch, and when I was a nine year old watching the show, it caught my attention. I laughed at the stupid little jokes sprinkled in when Tai and Joe weren't facing the screen. I liked Matt's "cool" attitude. I wanted to smack Mimi every time she broke a nail. Kids are easily entertained, and they want to watch stuff like that. So let the dub be the dub and don't whine when a dub name makes you think of your favorite Nickelodeon show.

Pretty much what a certain Cast Member would fall under. You know, the one whose Fanboy I am.

Oh, please, tell me more about this character, I'm clueless as to who it could be. ;]

Seriously, though, you expect a normal 18 year old over in Japan to watch a show that has a track record for being a children's cartoon? I don't think they were aiming THAT high. 14-15 tops.

 

[Kazemon15]

And I just have to say...I'm pretty sure all of us became Digimon fans because we first saw it dubbed and liked it, making us want to see it's original format in Japanese, and thus, created forums like these?

What dub bashers don't understand is...anime was first shown dubbed...I doubt random ppl would download Japanese cartoon shows without watching them on TV first. As I stated before, most things shown on TV are cut and changed for reasons such as, yes, a younger view would watch them.

About background music changes, some of the music changes I actually liked...(3rd movie, for example) The original music was just so boring, I wanted to switch to the dub movie because the music actually fit the fighting scenes. And has anyone ever thought that maybe...just maybe, they can't keep original background music, names and such because of copyright reasons? (i.e. Frontier dub and the other movies could not have their same "Digimon theme" from Fox Kids because of it) Like it or not, but Digimon is not that popular. Most ppl dont give a damn about it because there's no blood and guts flying around, so the dubbers try to make the best of it. I, for one, would rather have their names changed rather than the dub VAs butchering their pronoucement in the series. (i.e., Cardcaptors dub, Sa-KER-ra, Tsubasa dub, Kurogane was pronounced Crow-ga-ne)

Besides, wasnt this thread originally stating they cant wait for the dub? ...meaning, this thread is for non dub bashers...if ppl want to complain, then make their own damn thread and complain and leave the ppl who actually like the dub to talk about it.

 

[amigobro2]

Oh, please, tell me more about this character, I'm clueless as to who it could be. ;]

Seriously, though, you expect a normal 18 year old over in Japan to watch a show that has a track record for being a children's cartoon? I don't think they were aiming THAT high. 14-15 tops.

Well, you have to remember, there are fans in that age range, that's who he was trying to target, also, even if it does have "a track record for being a children's show", that doesn't mean people won't at least see an episode or two, I know MANY people, myself included, who watch shows who's demographics isn't aimed toward them in particular. Here's the thing, demographics are pretty much aims towards specific groups (i.e. groups such as, Age, Sex / Gender, Race/ Ethnicity, Location of residence, Socioeconomic status [SES], Religion, Marital status, Ownership [home, car, pet, etc.], Language, Mobility, Life cycles [fertility, mortality, migration], etc. ), that DOES NOT mean that other groups won't like it, in fact businesses try to get MORE people to buy their products, people out of their demographics, that is why sometimes they try to do things that will draw in another group, while at the same time, stay in their "target" demographic. That is what he said he wanted to do here, trying to bring in the "older fans", and hopefully some new ones, old and young.

And he said, "One, the goal is to take in a wide age group.
The plan was to also appeal to late teens, without ending as a hobby anime." "Late teens", as in 15-19 (maybe even 20), not just 14-15. Let me show you what I mean, the demographics for Digimon is "mainly" boys aged was 6-12, they would be this age when Adventure ran, then they continued to be fans and grow with it, as 7-13 yr olds during 02, 8-14 during Tamers, 9-15 with Frontier, but 3 years passes, and Toei and Bandai, wants to do something special and bring in the "older" audience because it has been 3 years since the last series, 3 years of reruns, this would make most watchers tune out. So with Savers they have to do something different, they have to make it appeal to an "older" audience as well as a "younger" one, the "older" audience would then most likely be 12-18, now they have to connect 6-12 to 12-18, 6-18. Changing the overall design from semi-chibi animation style to a more traditional bishōnen/bishōjo animation style, making the main characters older than previous incarnations, 6-12 to like [10/12]14-18, making the story more mature than previously (secret organiztion, street fighting, gangs, etc.), more "mature" animation (Yoshino, Miki & Megumi, Sayuri, even Chika during "some" episodes in the second half of the series), so as you can see, it WAS aimed to more then just a little older audience.

P.S. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just PISSED OFF right now! And I want to try to end this nonsense of pointless bickering!

P.S.S. I don't know why everyone's getting all huffy and puffy over a show, even if they're hardcore fans, IT'S A SHOW, don't think of it as a kid's show, IT'S A SHOW, wheter it be meant for kids, teens, adults, the elderly, tall people, short people, Japanese people, American people, or whatever!!! The bottom line is that IT IS A SHOW!!!!! And this just doesn't go for Digimon, for ANY SHOW!!!

 

[MugenSeiRyuu]

Good points. ( Minus the P.S.S one )

And I just have to say...I'm pretty sure all of us became Digimon fans because we first saw it dubbed and liked it, making us want to see it's original format in Japanese, and thus, created forums like these?

What dub bashers don't understand is...anime was first shown dubbed...I doubt random ppl would download Japanese cartoon shows without watching them on TV first. As I stated before, most things shown on TV are cut and changed for reasons such as, yes, a younger view would watch them.

You know, there are also things like accurate Dubs. I became a Fan because of one of those.

What's bothering me is that people are expecting WAY too much from the dub, regardless of who's directing it. After the four seasons we've seen dubbed, who honestly thought Savers would be any different? And with Nimoy, no less?

I don't want people to think that I like the idea of my favorite series becoming Americanized from the ground up. I'd love to see an uncensored dub with all the names kept and the plot completely in tact, and every line accurately translated. But it's what I've become accustomed to, and I've come to expect the worst. And trust me, this isn't the absolute worst things could be. Need I say more than "4Kids?" Maybe "One Piece?" ..."Lollipop?"

It's just that some people seem to think a 99% accurate dub WILL come, and they get their expectations stupidly high, then they're crushed when they here their favorite character's name is getting a few letters switched around.
.

I never expected a good Dub, but changing every Character´s name while at the same time talking about a faithfull Dub ? Not a good move, Mr.Nimoy.

The English dub is for kids to watch, and when I was a nine year old watching the show, it caught my attention. I laughed at the stupid little jokes sprinkled in when Tai and Joe weren't facing the screen. I liked Matt's "cool" attitude. I wanted to smack Mimi every time she broke a nail. Kids are easily entertained, and they want to watch stuff like that. So let the dub be the dub and don't whine when a dub name makes you think of your favorite Nickelodeon show..

Dumbed Down Characters ! You serously want this ? You know, people dissing Digimon take those as examples , too.

Oh, please, tell me more about this character, I'm clueless as to who it could be. ;].

Once open a Time, there was a Girl named Yoshino. She and her Digimon Raramon were blown to the Digital World. There she met QueenChessmon, who wants a heart, BantyoLeomon, who wants more courage to become even more manly, and Ivan, who wants to become smarter. So they went to meet a Wizard named Yggdrasil. He told them that they have to get rid of an Evil Witch first.

Seriously, though, you expect a normal 18 year old over in Japan to watch a show that has a track record for being a children's cartoon? I don't think they were aiming THAT high. 14-15 tops.

Late-Teens includes 18 Year olds. A lot of the old Fans are for sure that Age now, why else should there be all those References to the past ?

 

[SSJ Jup81]

I don't want people to think that I like the idea of my favorite series becoming Americanized from the ground up. I'd love to see an uncensored dub with all the names kept and the plot completely in tact, and every line accurately translated. But it's what I've become accustomed to, and I've come to expect the worst. And trust me, this isn't the absolute worst things could be. Need I say more than "4Kids?" Maybe "One Piece?" ..."Lollipop?"

Okay, now this just shows how screwed up the dub was, just by what you said about Mimi. I don't like character changes regardless of the show. They turned Mimi into a stereotypical popular airhead.

I don't care if a dub is bad or good, characters should never be dumbed down or made smarter than what they really are. If the character isn't a jerk in the original version, he/she shouldn't be made to look like one for its dub.

These types of changes are totally unnecessary. I can sorta tolerate a name change (even though it isn't necessary most of the time, imo), but characterization changes ruin the series for me, not that Savers is going to have that problem, since I haven't seen it.

 

[celestial_sacred]

And I just have to say...I'm pretty sure all of us became Digimon fans because we first saw it dubbed and liked it, making us want to see it's original format in Japanese, and thus, created forums like these?

Of course we first saw it dubbed. We don't live in Japan nor Digimon was available in Japanese in local stores... ~_~"

Besides, wasnt this thread originally stating they cant wait for the dub? ...meaning, this thread is for non dub bashers...if ppl want to complain, then make their own damn thread and complain and leave the ppl who actually like the dub to talk about it.

FYI,

cant wait till it comes out in the usa this fall:

what about you guys?

Dylan and Sunmon asked for everyone's opinion. What's wrong?

 

[GordoBaggins]

I'm sick of arguing about this. It's hard to keep up a debate about something that's inevitable with people who can't seem to get over said inevitable forthcomings...

Dylan and Sunmon asked for everyone's opinion. What's wrong?

Not sure if I've given a clear opinion yet, but you've all seen the gist of it sprinkled about my posts.

I'm glad that come October 1st, my seven year old neighbor will be talking about something other than Pokemon episodes. It's nerve wracking sometimes. x.X

 

[MugenSeiRyuu]

Yes, he might be talking about that new Pokemon Rip-Off.

 

[Johnzaloog]

Yes, he might be talking about that new Pokemon Rip-Off.

fair point. he may not remember the older serieses (?) at 7.

 

[GordoBaggins]

He watches it on a decent basis on Toon Disney, he knows the older series. Especially 02, he loves Armadillomon for some reason. I also established with him that Digimon wasn't just a copy of Pokemon, but he wasn't too convinced that it was a copycat to begin with... smart kid.

 

[MugenSeiRyuu]

That makes things a lot easier. A whole lot !