Rockman 9 - Collected info & rumors

[Pluvius]

I don't even download. My only link to here is emails informing me of new posts in this & the timeline thread.

 

[Role]

Unarmed Zero would not be able to beat an experienced Mega Man. Anything else is just silly.

Pluvius, you've got a call. It's the squad of reploids that Zero wiped out, as well as Sigma, who got his ass kicked before he started to get desperate.

Oh, and the humans used as a shield, since Zero's NOT BOUND BY ASIMOV'S LAWS OF ROBOTICS.

He becomes the host of the GOD OF DESTRUCTION for a reason. Wily made something pretty kickass when he made Zero, which makes Rockman and Forte look exactly like - and turns them into theortically - outdated garbage.

Now then, kindly don't put your fanboyism into 'who would win in a fight' arguments. Try logic instead. He can OUT MANEUVER Rockman. Dashing, Climbing, etc... are outside Rockman's repetoir. He can OUT FIREPOWER Rockman. X had an uber buster version of the Rockbuster. Zero, in X1, should you not get the buster upgrade, GIVES YOU HIS, SINCE YOUR UBER BUSTER SUCKS COMPARED TO HIS. He can OUT THINK and OUT WIT Rockman. Zero is NOT above hostages, and can make Rockman SHUT DOWN by abusing Asimov's laws of robotics - with a Human Shield. Rockman cannot kill a human. He isn't allowed by programming. Zero HAS NO SUCH PROGRAMMING (or for that matter, X).

Seeing a pattern here, yet? You know, Logic vs Fanboyism?

It's like using an army of Musket Users... against an army of Assault Rifle users. Just... sad.

 

[Pluvius]

Mega Man is not bound by Asimov's laws. They were guidelines, but not hard programmed, especially in American canon, thanks to the rewrite of MM7's ending.

Dashing is a gameplay feature, as is climbing walls. Even then, Mega Man can fly, as the limited flight times to the Rush armor in 6 & the Super Adapter in 7 were gameplay only. I think that's a bit more useful.

Assuming Zero is so much more powerful than Mega Man is fanboyish. Mega Man would continue to grow in experience & power between MM9 & whenever Zero is awakened. Do you really think that Wily's boasts are so true?

Zero either doesn't have or is too simple to use the buster he has when he is awakened. He didn't use it against Sigma at all. First time we see him with it is in X1. So we're talking about an unarmed & incomplete robot.

Zero is very simple when he first awakens. All he can do vocally is grunt & laugh. I sincerely doubt that mindless killing machine can think to hold hostages.

Not to mention justice energy, Mega Man's ability to pull through any situation with determination, the Double Rock Buster, & plot grace. The protagonist will win; that's just how things go. Mega Man, as a metaseries, even in its darkest tones, is optimistic, & the bad guy always loses.

 

[Dengar]

Why are you arguing?

 

[Tcatomon]

American canon isn't canon. That's like arguing the Japanese Forte could win a battle against the Western Bass. e_e It's ludicrous to say "Rock's better than Zero in English because CoA said so." Rock was an advanced robot, but YEARS separate the two's creation. X and Zero are on par with one another for skills.. even if X's potential is limitless as Zero has said. Now, given that X and Zero ARE the top ranking Maverick Hunters, Rock honestly wouldn't stand a chance against either of them. It's like comparing the skills and capabilities of an Atari and Ps3.. they just AREN'T going to add up in a fight for supremacy. (I think it'd go down something like ASIMO vs the Terminator..which I would pay good money to see XD)
In EITHER case until Capcom proves one way or the other neither side holds much weight and is simple speculation and personal wants based on what we've seen so far.. for the fact none of us knows what happens in the middle between the games. Judging by Rock's lack of appearance in the X series we can be sure he either ran his life cycle and "died", he sacrificed himself for the greater good, or someone blew him to pieces.
Given common sense and everything we know about both of them, my money goes on the more advanced one.

Zero either doesn't have or is too simple to use the buster he has when he is awakened. He didn't use it against Sigma at all.

And, so? Zero has a "buster" all the way through the Zero series... a weapon I NEVER used once I got the Z-saber. Just because you have something doesn't mean you're going to use it. Sigma and Zero fought a relatively close quarters battle. Using a buster (or any heavy gun weapon) is going to cause enough splatter damage to probably maim yourself too (and God knows what it would have done to the structure they were in). Plus saying that "all he can do vocally is grunt & laugh" is based off footage of a two minute cut scene. How do you know for sure just from a few minutes of a one on one battle? Ever watch a movie? Most of the times during battles the two don't exchange words.. just beat the ever loving snot out of one another, not soliloquize for the whole thing like a bad anime (Zero's OVER 9000!). Zero was under the influence of the Zero/Maverick virus, yes, but if that made him a berserker there's still enough raw strength to take on Sigma or anyone else who stood in his way..and he was damned good at it judging by the bloody flashbacks Zero has in X4 and beyond.

Why are you arguing?

Because it's the internet... Where we all come to together to hate one another. So, hush, you're blocking my view.

 

[Vincentdante]

Not to mention that the game itself (X1) told us that no force on earth could stand up to X (presumably that includes Zero and all the other reploids as well). it's also safe to assume that zero was built with the buster attached since it appears every robot created by wily and light are heavily armed (fear roll's broom).

 

[Tcatomon]

fear roll's broom

LMAO. That's why Wily built Zero.. to combat ROLL and her MEGABROOM! XD;

 

[Pluvius]

American canon isn't canon.

It's canon, just a different canon.

Rock was an advanced robot, but YEARS separate the two's creation.

Creation. Mega Man was being improved until after the beginning of Zero's creation. He's bound to have a fresh buster for the fight, along with some Rush Adapters & the help of Beat, Tango, & Eddie, not to mention that Roll, Auto, Blues, & Forte are no pushovers.

Judging by Rock's lack of appearance in the X series we can be sure he either ran his life cycle and "died", he sacrificed himself for the greater good, or someone blew him to pieces.

I would assume he simply volunteered to be deactivated at some point. It's more likely than thinking Zero managed to kill an entire cast of characters.

And, so? Zero has a "buster" all the way through the Zero series

I'm pretty sure that gun he got being called a Z-Buster is a mistranslation. Zero had no buster in the Zero series, either in his new body or otherwise.

a bad anime (Zero's OVER 9000!).

Wait, wait, are you trying to say DBZ is a bad anime?

 

[Tcatomon]

It's canon, just a different canon.

Which means squat all to the rest of the series.

I'm pretty sure that gun he got being called a Z-Buster is a mistranslation. Zero had no buster in the Zero series, either in his new body or otherwise.

That's why I put it in quotes, you half wit. He's got a gun. Gun, Buster, or Blaster, it's a long distance weapon, that was my point.

Wait, wait, are you trying to say DBZ is a bad anime?

Duh.
If you're going to go off on how I'm wrong you can kiss it. I DO NOT want to hear it. You could freakin' argue with a brick wall and I'm getting a little tired of it.

 

[Role]

Wow, that's sad. American Canon? No such thing exists! There is only ONE canon, and that's determined by the creators, whom are even free to retcon things they said earlier. And would you look at that? The creators are japanese.

Enough with this stupid 'who would win in a fight' thing. It's like giving Rock a flintlock musket and giving Zero an AK-47. I wonder who will win? This is a matter of differences in TECHNOLOGY. This is the thing that has DECIDED THE OUTCOME OF WARS! Superior technology puts heavy limits to how much help experience is to you. If you put an army of expert musketeers up against an army of modern weapon users with basic training, technology will win the day.

Thus, even without the Azimov's laws advantage, Zero has an extreme technological advantage, as Wily not only has the advancements he had with Forte/Gospel, but also has the intel he got from Dr. Light's plans for X. So then, applying both, Zero is now on par with X, whom would have been able to kick Rock's ass as well.

Mobility, Firepower, and Technology. These alone put X and Zero as superior in every way to Rock. He will not stand a chance. Only X and Zero can be said to be on par with each other, which is why Light has X in storage. Light does not believe X is ready, and I believe that Wily thinks the same thing about Zero. Wily wants to rule the world, but wants to make sure that Zero will be his pawn in doing so. He doesn't want to risk that Zero might kill him and go out of control, after all.

My guess is that Wily gets desparate, and unleashes Zero too early, and that THIS is what causes the fabled cataclysm.


About the no buster vs sigma - Hey, you're right! He kicked Sigma's ass WITHOUT IT! He doesn't even NEED that buster/gun/whatever to prove he's superior!

 

[Tcatomon]

So then, applying both, Zero is now on par with X, whom would have been able to kick Rock's ass as well.

Thank you. That was my other point I was trying to get across that he missed completely. X and Zero are equals. X could kick Rock's blue butt six ways till Sunday if he wasn't such a pacifist.

 

[Role]

The only reason Zero 'lived' longer than X was because he was using his body to seal off the Dark Elf.

 

[Pluvius]

Duh.
If you're going to go off on how I'm wrong you can kiss it. I DO NOT want to hear it. You could freakin' argue with a brick wall and I'm getting a little tired of it.

D:

Relax, I was just kidding around with that. Opinions will be what they may. Personally, I love the series, from beginning to end.

Enough with this stupid 'who would win in a fight' thing. It's like giving Rock a flintlock musket and giving Zero an AK-47. I wonder who will win? This is a matter of differences in TECHNOLOGY. This is the thing that has DECIDED THE OUTCOME OF WARS! Superior technology puts heavy limits to how much help experience is to you. If you put an army of expert musketeers up against an army of modern weapon users with basic training, technology will win the day.

X isn't leaps & bounds more powerful than Mega Man. He can grow & worry, but he's not necessarily stronger in combat. Do you two really think Light just stopped upgrading & improving Mega Man when he began working on X? X is all about potential. He has the ability to grow past Mega Man's combat prowess, but fresh out of a capsule & he would have nothing on Rock, not that they would ever fight. Zero is stronger than X to boot, but not that much stronger. Not strong enough that Mega Man pushed to his limits & forced to use the Double Rock Buster wouldn't be able to defeat him. If Zero has a buster, which is just an assumption, then he most likely only has one. X didn't have 2 initially, so why would Zero?

the Azimov's laws advantage

This isn't true. Mega Man, X, & all the other robots in the entire metaseries are never said to be completely bound by those laws. They were referenced once, in X1's opening, which never happened thanks to retcons, anyway.

the intel he got from Dr. Light's plans for X.

Where was it ever mentioned that Wily had any intel on X' plans?

So then, applying both, Zero is now on par with X, whom would have been able to kick Rock's ass as well.

That's quite a bold assumption. Rock Buster MK 13 doesn't mean Mega Man doesn't have 12 or even 13.

About the no buster vs sigma - Hey, you're right! He kicked Sigma's ass WITHOUT IT! He doesn't even NEED that buster/gun/whatever to prove he's superior!

Sigma isn't as battle savvy as Mega Man, easily. He's also a crappy copy of X, as are all Reploids. He certainly grew in many ways through the X series, though.

Edit:
Though, Role has the right idea with the giving up on this argument. Fact is that Capcom hasn't given us enough information on the subject, & all this is is arguing over which theory is correct with more theories. What ifs are what ifs, & that's all they'll ever be.

So, first Monday of September was 2 days ago. That means that, if the game comes out like on the 28th or 29th or whatever, there are like 4 or so more Mondays to go. I'm sure everyone loved this Monday (I still need a new points card so I can replay SMRPG). One week goes to MM2, presumably, to hype MM9. When are we getting MM2, do you guys think?

 

[Vincentdante]

I forget when did zero first get his Z-saber? was it X3 or X4 been so long since I played them?

and to answer pluvius I dunno when the US is getting MM2 sorry I don't think nintendo let up on whats comming out soon for the VC. Britain got MM2 last year so I would have thought the US would have it also.

 

[Dengar]

What's the use of arguing with someone who will not listen no matter what?

 

[Pluvius]

I forget when did zero first get his Z-saber? was it X3 or X4 been so long since I played them?

X2, when Wily as Serges rebuilt Zero.

and to answer pluvius I dunno when the US is getting MM2 sorry I don't think nintendo let up on whats comming out soon for the VC. Britain got MM2 last year so I would have thought the US would have it also.

I thought Europe was getting shafted & that Oceania was where the VC had had MM1 & MM2 for a while.

What's the use of arguing with someone who will not listen no matter what?

Exactly, no one here is going to change their minds on the matter, so it's an argument best left with an agreement to disagree.

Edit:
Also, who here thinks that Velguarder is Treble/Gospel? Or do you think their similar designs are just a coincidence?

 

[Role]

X isn't leaps & bounds more powerful than Mega Man. He can grow & worry, but he's not necessarily stronger in combat. Do you two really think Light just stopped upgrading & improving Mega Man when he began working on X? X is all about potential. He has the ability to grow past Mega Man's combat prowess, but fresh out of a capsule & he would have nothing on Rock, not that they would ever fight. Zero is stronger than X to boot, but not that much stronger. Not strong enough that Mega Man pushed to his limits & forced to use the Double Rock Buster wouldn't be able to defeat him. If Zero has a buster, which is just an assumption, then he most likely only has one. X didn't have 2 initially, so why would Zero?

Umm... No... There's more than just that. The reason for being sealed away by light was to test to see if he was safe for humanity (see: Asimov's Laws of Robotics and how X and Zero were the first to not follow them). But even in the schematics you see in the intro, he has more or less an Uber Rock Buster. Add on top of that the added maneuverability, the installation capability, and various other advances in armor and what not over Rock, and X is superior, as in, X is exactly what he was built to be - Rock's successor. Basically, X is a pimped out Rock, sans programmed laws, and with pretty much unlimited upgrade potential.

Zero? Zero doesn't have the upgrade potential, but was built all about battle. It's why he nearly killed Sigma, who was built with combat and tactics in mind as well. Zero was built with tons of power, but wasn't complete upon activation. Despite that, his power was on par with, or even superior to that of sigma. His Zero Buster/Gun/Whatever was more powerful than X's initial X-Buster (though X's upgrade potential shows that he can overcome this). However, the key thing with Zero was shown in in the Zero games - he can equip parts and chips to increase his repritoire. Lots of power, and vertile equipment. Intended to take out X, but wound up being his best buddy, much to Wily's dismay, we can assume.

This isn't true. Mega Man, X, & all the other robots in the entire metaseries are never said to be completely bound by those laws. They were referenced once, in X1's opening, which never happened thanks to retcons, anyway.

X wasn't bound by those laws, nor was Zero. BUT EVERYTHING BEFORE THEM WAS. How did you get me saying Rock is bound by the laws, as it showed when he TRIED TO KILL WILY, AND FROZE UP. X? That's why he went into 100 years of testing! To make sure it was safe to remove those laws!

Where was it ever mentioned that Wily had any intel on X' plans?

Rockman 7. Forte stole them.

That's quite a bold assumption. Rock Buster MK 13 doesn't mean Mega Man doesn't have 12 or even 13.

Is it ever mentioned he does, though? Perhaps he wasn't compatible. And even then, a single step up in technology is a significant gain. So far, Rock has had a total of three, maybe four busters. Check the wiki if you don't believe me. So right now, he has Mark 3, 4 tops... Besides, Zero has a buster superior to the Mark 13. It's due to X's upgrade potential that he was able to equal and surpass it.

Sigma isn't as battle savvy as Mega Man, easily. He's also a crappy copy of X, as are all Reploids. He certainly grew in many ways through the X series, though.

Have you even PLAYED the games?! He kicks X's ass with ease, and X is an uber Rock! Have you gotten hit by him? You know how much that HURTS?! It's only becuase of player skill you're EVER able to beat Sigma! That being said, we can say that X had better maneuverability and evasive skills and eventually took him out. Of course, eventually X got upgraded enough to be able to take him out much easier.

Edit:
Though, Role has the right idea with the giving up on this argument. Fact is that Capcom hasn't given us enough information on the subject, & all this is is arguing over which theory is correct with more theories. What ifs are what ifs, & that's all they'll ever be.

So, first Monday of September was 2 days ago. That means that, if the game comes out like on the 28th or 29th or whatever, there are like 4 or so more Mondays to go. I'm sure everyone loved this Monday (I still need a new points card so I can replay SMRPG). One week goes to MM2, presumably, to hype MM9. When are we getting MM2, do you guys think?

Giving up? I said there's no contest! You're giving a guy with a pea shooter the advantage vs a guy with an uber weapon? How does THAT work?

What's the use of arguing with someone who will not listen no matter what?

Welcome to the Internet, enjoy your stay. You will eventually get idiots like pluvuis who don't understand things accepted by EVERYONE ELSE.

 

[Tcatomon]

If Zero has a buster, which is just an assumption, then he most likely only has one. X didn't have 2 initially, so why would Zero?

They don't have two. Zero has one and X has one. The only reason they appear to have two is because sprites are easier to make when there's only one set, hense why they jump around. The rest is creative license and what looks aesthetically pleasing to the eye. If I'm not mistaken Zero and X's busters are on the right.

And no Vanguard isn't Treble. This subject's been beaten to death all across the internet. Vanguard is just a purple dog robot. It's wishful thinking.

 

[Pluvius]

Intended to take out X, but wound up being his best buddy, much to Wily's dismay, we can assume.

Wily seems just content to see how far Zero can excel in whatever he does, & is simply proud of his creation. He tests & rebuilds Zero as Serges, Isoc, & himself in secret. He's more proud than crazy in 21XX.

Rockman 7. Forte stole them.

Forte stole the plans for the Super Adapter. Saying he stole anything else is unbased & a complete guess.

Have you even PLAYED the games?! He kicks X's ass with ease, and X is an uber Rock! Have you gotten hit by him? You know how much that HURTS?! It's only becuase of player skill you're EVER able to beat Sigma! That being said, we can say that X had better maneuverability and evasive skills and eventually took him out. Of course, eventually X got upgraded enough to be able to take him out much easier.

Sigma is better than a newbie X, of course. These sorts of things aren't just about raw ability. Experience is a big factor.

Giving up? I said there's no contest! You're giving a guy with a pea shooter the advantage vs a guy with an uber weapon? How does THAT work?

I'm not giving up. I'm changing the subject because this argument is going nowhere. I think you're being stubborn, & you I. It's best to just drop the whole argument, as these sorts of things are what make you think I live only to argue.

Welcome to the Internet, enjoy your stay. You will eventually get idiots like pluvuis who don't understand things accepted by EVERYONE ELSE.

Firstly, nice immature insult there. You act like a 7th grader, if even. Secondly, not "everyone else" accepts Zero cataclysm theories. Many do, many don't, & most won't change their views. Grow up & drop the argument like an adult with a "Let's agree to disagree".

They don't have two. Zero has one and X has one. The only reason they appear to have two is because sprites are easier to make when there's only one set, hense why they jump around. The rest is creative license and what looks aesthetically pleasing to the eye. If I'm not mistaken Zero and X's busters are on the right.

X gets 2 busters with his armor in X2, & has 2 ever since. He fires one shot from one arm,. & the other from the other. Same thing in X3. Before that he can switch which side it's on, but not use both sides at once. Zero never had 2, can use either arm, & cannot use both arms as a buster at once. When X "disarmed" in The Day of Sigma, he apparently dropped the... I wanna say data of his buster from that arm, because otherwise he could just fire from the other arm.

And no Vanguard isn't Treble. This subject's been beaten to death all across the internet. Vanguard is just a purple dog robot. It's wishful thinking.

If anything Gospel is based on Velguarder, given release dates. I was lightheartedly suggesting that.

 

[Role]

Wily seems just content to see how far Zero can excel in whatever he does, & is simply proud of his creation. He tests & rebuilds Zero as Serges, Isoc, & himself in secret. He's more proud than crazy in 21XX.

Tell me where it says that Wily is Serges. TELL ME.

Sigma is better than a newbie X, of course. These sorts of things aren't just about raw ability. Experience is a big factor.

Where do you get those facts? How do you know that he's a newbie? Do you realize that Rock has only had 8 years of XP? Or is Nine now?

I'm not giving up. I'm changing the subject because this argument is going nowhere. I think you're being stubborn, & you I. It's best to just drop the whole argument, as these sorts of things are what make you think I live only to argue.

I'M BEING STUBBORN? You're the one who's being stubborn here, refusing to accept what EVERYONE ELSE knows to be fact.

Firstly, nice immature insult there. You act like a 7th grader, if even. Secondly, not "everyone else" accepts Zero cataclysm theories. Many do, many don't, & most won't change their views. Grow up & drop the argument like an adult with a "Let's agree to disagree".

Apparently you missed the part where I said that the word Idiot isn't an insult anymore. Allow me to actually insult you, then, moron.

X gets 2 busters with his armor in X2, & has 2 ever since. He fires one shot from one arm,. & the other from the other. Same thing in X3. Before that he can switch which side it's on, but not use both sides at once. Zero never had 2, can use either arm, & cannot use both arms as a buster at once. When X "disarmed" in The Day of Sigma, he apparently dropped the... I wanna say data of his buster from that arm, because otherwise he could just fire from the other arm.

Uh, no he doesn't. He doesn't have 'Two busters' per se. You might wanna double check those specs.
He can't switch which side it's on, moron. That's called Sprite Mechanics, it has to do with why even though Link is left handed, when facing the other way his sprite was simply flipped, and appears to be right handed instead. I can't believe you didn't see that. The same thing could be said about ANY SIDE SCROLLING PERSON OR THING.
Please leave your stupidity and failure to understand gaming basics such as sprite flipping out of discussions. You look stupid.